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  1. #41
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    Wow, Stephan!
    It didn't seem absolutely the middle of April...good snow depth, trees covered by snow, clear sky. It was really a winter spell.
    Impressive drop of temperature in the last part of descent!
    But when you have arrived at the bottom you were able to move that hand? Ah, ah...

    About that "crack" in snow cover...isn't it a normal settlement in snow cover (caused by you passage)? Normally they formed on the slopes and its roar is really frightening. But maybe in this case the reason is different and you are probably right.

    Thanks to sharing this your amazing experience

  2. #42
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    Dear all,

    Yes, it was really not what one may expected in the second half of April. I had no problems with my hands: after a 45 min ascent from the valley my blood circulation was quite animated... Of course I dressed myself with gloves after a while but normally I find it quite bearable for the first 15 to 20 minutes at these temperatures.

    Thanks for your reasoning on the cracks. I cannot exclude that they are caused by normal settlement. I drawed the analogy between these cracks and those formed on lake ice due to thermal contraction. They were already there when I passed, so no additional load was present when they formed.

    Bruno, thank you also for your infos about the cryotemp. I wasn't aware that changing the batteries by yourself is possible. I assume that the drawback is that you loose the waranty of the product? Nevertheless this seems to be an interesting option and I will think about testing the LyoTemp for the really cold frost hollows...

    Best regards, Stephan

  3. #43
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    Dear Stephan, the waranty is surely expired, we bought them 6-7 years ago. So I felt free to change the batteries myself.
    Cheers

  4. #44
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    Hi all !

    In Belgium we had a -10.7 degrees on April 20 in Murringen (608m) and this without snow!

    From last winter the almost -40 degrees in a Polish valley around Zakopane took my attention. Often small closed valleys on a higher level can be extremely cold too.

    In June I do a little experiment in the Dutch dunes near Alkmaar, the Netherlands. There exist some closed dunes from 5 to 8m of depth and they can be surprisingly cold. They are only 2 tot 3 km from the North Sea.

    In three weeks I move to Romania for hopefully interesting data if the battery still runs... Our good friend in Slovenia opened the logger for me and changed the battery of the Cryotemp 18 months ago. We will see... Due to private reasons (baby,...) it get difficult to visit and maintain all stations. That's why there is a possibility that my Hungarian friends would continu in Romania. I keep you in touch about that. In the future of course I try to find time to visit all of you.

    Bye
    Karel

  5. #45
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    Hi Karel,
    really good low in Murringen on April 20! We had damaging frosts on April 21 (lows between -3°C and -10°C at the bottom of the valleys)

    I'm looking forward your news about "your" doline in Romania. Actually those severe cold spots in January in central-eastern Europe could have caused extreme low temperatures in the frost hollows.
    With lows between -30 and -40°C measured at the plains or at low plateaus in those areas, I don't expect differences of 20-25°C between lowlands (plains or valley's bottom with snow at ground) and dolines at 1300 m (as Romania's doline), as it happens in North Italy, but temperatures around -50°C are possible, in my opinion.
    Good thing if your hungarian friends will follow that doline.

    Bye

  6. #46
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    Halle, Belgium
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    Hi,

    Sorry for interrupting with information about other countries in this topic. Short reaction on Bruno's message: I think -45 would already be fantastic. It seems that most of the differences are between 25 and 28 degrees with free atmosphere. Once I had 31 degrees difference. Cryotemp is a very good datalogger except for the maintenance.
    My friends in Utrecht University are specialised in Arctic climate. In June I will try to visit them to ask about possibilities to hire one of their older stations which they used in Antarctica. I will let you know the outcome.

    My friends in Hungary posted a very nice movie about the snowstorm on April 20: In the Bükk mountains, around 750 to 850m, they had 90 cm of snow. Unfortunately electricity broke down and the automatic station fell out.

    Bye

  7. #47
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    Citazione Originariamente Scritto da Karel Visualizza Messaggio
    My friends in Hungary posted a very nice movie about the snowstorm on April 20: In the Bükk mountains, around 750 to 850m, they had 90 cm of snow. Unfortunately electricity broke down and the automatic station fell out.
    Unbelievable snowfall!
    Thanks Karel for sharing it

    About possible extreme cold in your doline in Romania...actually I didn't get news of very low temperatures in last January in the "famous" cold villages of this country (like previous winter) so it is possible that wind and cloudiness had disturbed radiative coolings there.
    However, we will see...

  8. #48
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    Hi Karel, hi to all

    Your info is in no way an interruption - thanks for sharing it with us! Seems that the further east, the more impressive the snow cover was... There is not much information available about the frost hollows in Bükk Fennsik available on the Internet (or - perhaps more probable - not that easy to find for people like me without any knowledge of Hungarian...) - what is the best resource to learn more about this region?

    I look foreward to your results from Romania and hope for a continuation of the measurements there!

    Best regards, Stephan

  9. #49
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    New data / frost damages at Hintergräppelen

    Dear all

    I visited the two frost hollows in the Alpstein on Ascension Day in order to collect the latest data. In the morning I visited Sämtisersee - a beautyful scenery:



    Here are the latest data from March to May 25th:





    The Hintergräppelen frost hollow was even colder (I already presented the movie from my visit on April 21):





    In Hintergräppelen the cold spell in the second half of April resultet in frost damages at the spruce trees which are situated in the frost hollow: The upper limit of the red colored trees is quite good visible on the following pictures and corresponds more or less with the upper limit of the frost hollow:



    From March 17 to April 18 no daily minimum below -10 °C have been observed, but in the second half of April on 5 days temperature fell below -10 °C (including a minimum of -27.3 °C and one of -21.8 °C). It seems that this frost period and the intensive insolation at the same time are the reasons for the reddening of the needles. Here are two interesting arcticles about this topic (unfortunately only in german): http://www.waldwissen.net/waldwirtsc...aeden/index_DE and http://szf-jfs.org/doi/pdf/10.3188

    Best regards, Stephan

  10. #50
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    Interesting topic, Stephan! The damages of severe frost on spruces are really impressive and educational.
    In fact the reason of lack of vegetation at the bottom of many dolines is not the extreme cold in winter (all is covered by snow and however the trees are in "ibernation") but the very low temperatures in April or May, when, without snow at ground, there is the vegetative aweaking (especially for very little plants)

    Cheers
    Bruno

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